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LASnix: So.... LASnix?

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    • CommentAuthorchris
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Share your thoughts on a possible Linux Action Show distro here. Good idea? Bad idea? Want to help?

    TELL US! We'll listen to ya!
    -Chris
  2.  
    Posted By: chrisGood idea? Bad idea? Want to help?

    Sounds exciting; I'm in.

    Perhaps we could have a little meeting on the #linuxactionshow channel. You could post the date/time for the discussion here and interested peeps would log in.
    • CommentAuthortehk
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    I suggest taking the current Debian, Ubuntu, or fedora(maybe its too new as of now) and freezing the distro as of today. Loading it up with the restricted modules, proprietary needs(flash), some apps, CommCompiz, and some other stuff. Then band together and compile some awesome apps, and help fix some of the newer apps. Then use a test box to test new features before passing them on to the new repos.

    Isn't there a multiversion utility for apt? PBI sounds good but i wonder how it will work in this OS.
  4.  
    me likey.

    would def have to have all the opencompos action for bryan. And would need to have a news feel directly from chris that shows UP-TO-DATE conversions of people/states agencies/countries to linux :).
  5.  
    I'll build you one Chris.. It's not that hard to remix Fedora so if you give me a list of packages you like I'll figure out how much work it will be.
    •  
      CommentAuthorvladimir
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    My 'ideal' distro would be Feisty Fawn +

    1) Working software raid (no udev/mdadm bootup race conditions).
    2) Codecs (mp3/win32/etc..), Flash, Nvidia drivers out of the box.

    My personal application choices:

    1) Exaile instead of Rhythmbox.
    2) Deluge instead of the limited default torrent client.

    In regards to codecs and such, I have a question: Why can't distros release a version for The Rest Of The World and a version for the USA? Linux is developed by people throughout the world, why should those living under saner legal systems be indirectly subject to US intellectual property laws? That said, over here in Australia we are going to get hit with the DMCA too :-(.
  7.  
    Posted By: vladimir
    In regards to codecs and such, I have a question: Why can't distros release a version for The Rest Of The World and a version for the USA? Linux is developed by people throughout the world, why should those living under saner legal systems be indirectly subject to US intellectual property laws? That said, over here in Australia we are going to get hit with the DMCA too :-(.


    Because then it wouldn't be freely redistributable anymore. That's that simple. That sorta ends that whole it's Free Software deal since certain people now cannot legally get it. The way to do it is to do a hooker for GStreamer that allows you to install depending on need in runtime (this could be using the Fluendo codec pack alone or it could be extended to embrace the reverse engineered codec packages.. that one is still iffy legally though).

    Oh and if someone packages it up in the US (and other insane places) he is liable for contributory patent infringement, which means you can get sued just for providing said patent covered software but the patent holders... the law is fun... I mean painful
    • CommentAuthormaddog39
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    This is an awsome idea! Totally do it, but has to be based on debian of course. :D
    • CommentAuthorkiwiboyus
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    I'm a big fan of Mint Linux (I started with Ubuntu when it first came out), something similar would be cool, even if it was only LAS art work and themes. I have tried other distros and KDE and keep coming back to Debian based Gnome distros as my personal favorites. Maybe some of the talented graphic artists out there could come up with some LAS icons, themes and wallpapers?
    Love the show!
  10.  
    Okay, I caved.. I started building a prototype LasNIX on F7 x86_64 with the the livna repos enabled. I plan a basic GNOME desktop with compiz, codecs, all the virtualization goodies, a few good games.. and the nvidia driver (there's still a problem with the ati driver in terms of AIGLX support and it doesn't coexist with the nvidia one). Just a prototype to see how much work needs to be done to met 80% of Chris' goals
    • CommentAuthorkiwiboyus
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Sounds good David :)

    You know I could do a KDE desktop if there was a way to make it clean like Gnome but I guess thats the point of of having different approaches right?
    • CommentAuthorfreality
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    This may not be the place; it seems everyone's stoked on a desktop distro. But recently, I've felt that linux needs a home server distro; something light and easily configurable. A distro ready to go with uPnp, File, Print, etc.

    You know...for kids!
    • CommentAuthorbarbwire
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Hey David - why 64 bit?

    A couple of problems I had with F7 (minor I know - but enough to discourage my continued use) was nautilus not having the left-hand directory tree, and being unable to assign <Super>+{X} for global hot keys. If these can be altered in the build (in a x86 build) I would definitely look forward to transitioning off Ubuntu!
    • CommentAuthoroctathlon
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Hi LASers, I've been listening to the podcast for a while and love it, but this idea intrigued me enough that I actually signed up for the forum to follow it. Pretty much all the goals you talked about on the podcast really resonated with me. It's getting late, so just one comment at this point ... the name LASnix ... it's just so, well, nasal. What about Action Linux or something? But that's OK, a rose by any other name and all that.
  15.  
    Posted By: kiwiboyusSounds good David :)

    You know I could do a KDE desktop if there was a way to make it clean like Gnome but I guess thats the point of of having different approaches right?


    I mainly don't include KDE because I have to download all the packages.. and I don't use KDE nor do I like it personally, for a prototype I want quick and to the point. The ISO is composing right now, my initial impression is that revisor makes this very easy, I can package any additional software we'd like and setup a LasNIX repo, have it pull in the packages and compose the ISO then submit the suitable packages for Fedora. We'd get package updates running from Fedora so Chris gets the newest versions of all the none core packages during the lifetime of the distro and it is dead easy to rebase LasNIX to F8 once that is out, kick it around a bit and issue a new version once the worst Fedora bugs are handled (you know how it is, users get their hands on a new release and all manners of bugs get uncovered on hardware nobody has tested it on under certain conditions during the final stages).

    I'll likely have an ISO image which will sit around 1.7GB in a few hours, and since it's my birthday today I'll make a torrent and post it later as a present.. I remind you though that this is just F7 with additional packages and a different setup, I haven't changed the graphics at all but I have included fonts, icons, backgrounds and such so people can tinker and give input.
    • CommentAuthorBryan
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007 edited
     
    I've started a new thread on this with some thoughts here:
    http://www.linuxactionshow.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1163
    • CommentAuthorchris
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Posted By: DavidNielsenit's my birthday today


    Happy Birthday!!

    -Chris
  18.  
    Posted By: barbwireHey David - why 64 bit?

    A couple of problems I had with F7 (minor I know - but enough to discourage my continued use) was nautilus not having the left-hand directory tree, and being unable to assign +{X} for global hot keys. If these can be altered in the build (in a x86 build) I would definitely look forward to transitioning off Ubuntu!


    Easy, my machine is 64bit and I run everything on this.. every new machine sold is 64bit, I'd rather focus on hardware I have and hardware that can run all these badass features like games, compiz and wonder crack. Naturally this is a prototype, once I confirm that this works I'll crank out livecds and install cds for i386 and x86_64. Running i386 on a 64bit machine feels... dirty.
    •  
      CommentAuthorvladimir
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Posted By: DavidNielsen
    Posted By: barbwireHey David - why 64 bit?

    A couple of problems I had with F7 (minor I know - but enough to discourage my continued use) was nautilus not having the left-hand directory tree, and being unable to assign+{X} for global hot keys. If these can be altered in the build (in a x86 build) I would definitely look forward to transitioning off Ubuntu!


    Easy, my machine is 64bit and I run everything on this.. every new machine sold is 64bit, I'd rather focus on hardware I have and hardware that can run all these badass features like games, compiz and wonder crack. Naturally this is a prototype, once I confirm that this works I'll crank out livecds and install cds for i386 and x86_64. Running i386 on a 64bit machine feels... dirty.


    Happy Birthday :-). Btw, do w32codecs work with 64bit?
  20.  
    Posted By: vladimir
    Happy Birthday :-). Btw, do w32codecs work with 64bit?


    No but I included gstreamer-ffmpeg and all the packaged gstreamer-plugins in base, good, bad and ugly. These are 64bit clean (mostly) and work great here, has done so for a long time.
    •  
      CommentAuthorvladimir
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2007
     
    Posted By: DavidNielsenOkay, I caved.. I started building a prototype LasNIX on F7 x86_64 with the the livna repos enabled. I plan a basic GNOME desktop with compiz, codecs, all the virtualization goodies, a few good games.. and the nvidia driver (there's still a problem with the ati driver in terms of AIGLX support and it doesn't coexist with the nvidia one). Just a prototype to see how much work needs to be done to met 80% of Chris' goals


    A Fedora question. I installed a Rawhide (post Test4) of FC7 and added the Livna repository. I installed the Nvidia modules and then later I was prompted to install some updates. These updates included a kernel update from the official Fedora repo - however there were no updated Nvidia modules available from Livna. Now to a new user, they wouldn't know to check the versions of the new kernel to ensure there is a corresponding module from Livna. It seemed to me like their dependency checking somehow failed to detect that upgrading my kernel would kill my X - was this just a bug in the rawhide at the time, or will Fedora's updater still prompt you to kernel update even when matching Livna modules are unavailable (and hence kill your X)?
  22.  
    Posted By: vladimir
    Posted By: DavidNielsenOkay, I caved.. I started building a prototype LasNIX on F7 x86_64 with the the livna repos enabled. I plan a basic GNOME desktop with compiz, codecs, all the virtualization goodies, a few good games.. and the nvidia driver (there's still a problem with the ati driver in terms of AIGLX support and it doesn't coexist with the nvidia one). Just a prototype to see how much work needs to be done to met 80% of Chris' goals


    A Fedora question. I installed a Rawhide (post Test4) of FC7 and added the Livna repository. I installed the Nvidia modules and then later I was prompted to install some updates. These updates included a kernel update from the official Fedora repo - however there were no updated Nvidia modules available from Livna. Now to a new user, they wouldn't know to check the versions of the new kernel to ensure there is a corresponding module from Livna. It seemed to me like their dependency checking somehow failed to detect that upgrading my kernel would kill my X - was this just a bug in the rawhide at the time, or will Fedora's updater still prompt you to kernel update even when matching Livna modules are unavailable (and hence kill your X)?


    You probably need to adjust the livna repo file to point at F7 instead of development.
    • CommentAuthorGarfunkel
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Great idea guys! i like the name too :)

    One suggestion, Please use dpkg/.deb packages via apt-get/aptitude, or just use the debian base! New users will have much less fuss with that system then something like gentoo or suse or fedora, not beating down on them but you have to say that the debian base is very solid and .debs are an excellent choice, especially to new users.

    great idea too! we have such a nice little community here and i'm sure we can all do our part. I'll help test it and bug reports and stuff like that.
  24.  
    expect really shit seeding, I'm having a few issues with my ISP capping bittorrent upload.

    *edit*

    On your 64bit LasNIX prototype DVD you will find: GNOME, OpenOffice, drivers and firmware for nvidia cards and various wifi cards not to mention all the codec support your heart could desire. Also included a selection of great apps and games. This is basically a souped up F7, provided I did everything correctly the repos should be set up and updates should flow from Livna and Fedora.

    *edit 2*

    Link removed, I have no interest in the prototype anymore, in an effort to not waste people's bandwidth I'm taking down the torrent.
    • CommentAuthorBryan
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Posted By: DavidNielsenLasNIX Prototype- expect really shit seeding, I'm having a few issues with my ISP capping bittorrent upload.

    Cool man! Though, I just want to make sure everyone is clear, this isn't an official LASnix build. :) We're not quite at the official build stage yet.
  26.  
    Posted By: Bryan
    Posted By: DavidNielsenLasNIX Prototype- expect really shit seeding, I'm having a few issues with my ISP capping bittorrent upload.

    Cool man! Though, I just want to make sure everyone is clear, this isn't an official LASnix build. :) We're not quite at the official build stage yet.


    Hence the use of the term prototype and warnings that it's basically a F7 x86_64 with nvidia and codec support.. just to show that in a few hours I have composed a distro, with a bit of effort we can do this. The real fun is when we need to start adding artwork, add sounds, do effects by default and install the proprietary drivers (and make them work)..
    • CommentAuthorGarfunkel
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    one of the things that could really set LASnix above all other distros is the intro sound/music. the LAS theme song with bryan saying something in his timeless voice and chriss laughing his girlish laugh :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJeff
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Chris.

    Upgrading your kernel. On a deb-based system you really have two choices (that I know about) to ensure the kernel does not update, forcing a reboot of your system (and killing your proprietary drivers).

    1) Build your own kernel. Its really very easy. I suggest using the deb kernel-package.

    2) Pin your kernel in apt. Section 3.10 in http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html tells you how through /etc/apt/preferences. In aptitude, you hit the '=' key on the package listing to pin a package. Works great, I do the former - even kept it pinned through my recent upgrade to etch (no booting, nice).

    Hope that helps.
  29.  
    I can only imagine the giggle factor if my computer screamed "This login on the LINUX ACTION DISTRO" on login. On errors it could refer to "that thing you can do in Amsterdam".
    • CommentAuthori0null
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007 edited
     
    I think that this distribution primary focus should not be aimed at the 'technical' audience, but rather the 'general user'. This is because, Linux needs the publicity, and we need to convince the general user to use Linux and not shove loads developer tools in there face. Doing this will only make the image of 'Linux' seem bloated and scary to them.

    Concentrate on 'general public' and developers will migrate as does the market share =].

    I totally agree with vladimir in that we should do a distro based on Ubuntu feisty or Linux mint and include things like deluge, but also i think that things like beagle and the Deskbar Applet which can prove to be incredibly useful to users, and can also greatly enhance there experience and efficiency of working with Linux.

    Also, about the codecs: it may be a good idea to install VLC as the default media player as it can handle most multimedia formats on the planet, it is licensed under the GPL) and the user may also be familiar with it on one of the other many platforms that it supports.

    I also think think that including applications that integrate really nicely with other applications will make things really easy for the user and it really shows the power of open source.
  31.  
    Posted By: i0nullI think that this distribution primary focus should not be aimed at the 'technical' audience, but rather the 'general user'.


    I disagree. There are plenty of distributions out there doing just that (Ubuntu, Xandrox, Linspire...etc). They're all doing a fantastic job and if someone is looking for those new user features in a distro, they should choose one that has strong support such as the ones mentioned. I guess I look at this as more as a geeky distro project and less of a formal distro.

    This project sounds like fun. I would love to help...

    -Anderson
    • CommentAuthorebeyer
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Will you have different flavors of LASnix depending on desktop environment, like LASnix, KLASnix, XLASnix?

    EB
    • CommentAuthorBryan
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Posted By: ebeyerWill you have different flavors of LASnix depending on desktop environment, like LASnix, KLASnix, XLASnix?

    Probably not. At least not "officially". :)

    The fact is, at this point, we haven't even settled on the default desktop environment yet. KDE4, Gnome, Enlightenment... your guess is as good as mine right now. Chris and I are tossing this around quite a lot, and we are taking in recommendations and feedback from a lot of people. So we'll have that narrowed down before too much longer.

    Posted By: i0nullI think that this distribution primary focus should not be aimed at the 'technical' audience, but rather the 'general user'

    Posted By: andersonmanlyI guess I look at this as more as a geeky distro project and less of a formal distro.

    I see no reason we cannot make both types of users quite happy. By including the proper tools the power of the system will be increased. But the existence of these tools within the distro need not make it any more complex for an "average" user. It all depends on how things are laid out and presented.

    Posted By: Garfunkelone of the things that could really set LASnix above all other distros is the intro sound/music.

    Ha! Couldn't agree more. Good audio I believe will go a long way towards "cool-fy-ing" LASnix. At this point I have only the slightly inkling of what those sounds will be. But we will have custom audio, of that you can be sure.
  34.  
    Posted By: i0null
    Also, about the codecs: it may be a good idea to install VLC as the default media player as it can handle most multimedia formats on the planet, it is licensed under the GPL) and the user may also be familiar with it on one of the other many platforms that it supports.


    VLC also has the shittiest interface known to mankind. GStreamer is well supported and already well integrated, what little it does not support yet (like DVD while not unsupported is a bit weak) is getting better by the day. VLC additionally has problems specifically because it's GPL (patents), but it doesn't seem like people care much about those so let's just ignore it. VLC is terribly buggy, it doesn't work nicely in a composite environment yet. GStreamer has commercial support available, friendly not to mention very responsive developer and it has testing done for every commit ensuring that the codebase is always of a standard above what we see in other multimedia projects. VLC killed baby Einstein, making it the default would be a monumental mistake.
    • CommentAuthorlawabb
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    If its going to be the coolest distro on the block, it should be KDE4 based, right?
    • CommentAuthorWolf
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007 edited
     
    I agree with lawabb, Because KDE4 is suppose to have more support for beryl. I like the idea of Skype, Beryl and Compiz, and better games. I'm a newbie to Linux so i can't help much, but I'm willing to be a tester.
  37.  
    Posted By: lawabbIf its going to be the coolest distro on the block, it should be KDE4 based, right?


    Why?
    •  
      CommentAuthorwyth
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    Just to pile on, a linux distro that shows rubberneckers what this thing can do *and* can be run out of the box would do as much for converting people as Dell selling Ubuntu-ready machines. Okay, maybe not that much, but something close to it. I just initiated my brother into Feisty, and he stepped right up and got things fairly quickly, but needed some hand-holding. What you've got planned would help make him a full-on missionary, and the man works at a very large corporation where he's been pushing for open source software where he can. This is the kind of thing that might can convince a manager or seven.
    •  
      CommentAuthorm61
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2007
     
    the way this is going, about adding all this 'pre-installed' stuff, the distro is going to be like 4 dvd based install :P

    but hey, it's going to be the best one right
  40.  
    I'm taking down the torrent, based on Chris' reaction in the ideas thread I fail to see any reason why I should continue wasting my time on a prototype which will never be used.
  41.  
    pop up widgets of new LAS forum posts

    preconfigured LAS IRC client

    easy configuration transfer between LASinux users
    "check out my new .... its pretty sweet... I'll send it to you" other side "WOW it configured it for me so its just like your!"
  42.  
    Posted By: hammerandbank
    easy configuration transfer between LASinux users
    "check out my new .... its pretty sweet... I'll send it to you" other side "WOW it configured it for me so its just like your!"


    An easy way to transfer theme settings between machines.. sounds like a job for Telepathy Tubes. Something like a neat little thing to share theme settings between users from the theming applet, the problem would be between distros and having an special rendering engines be present, these need to be compiled and we can't just do that nor can we depend on them being installed so a kind of check would need to be made to see if it was there, then if it wasn't check if it's in the packaging database then either install it or refuse the transfer. This again calls for a common packaging query API between distros, we need to be able to request information to make this work. However the actual sharing part is easy, the making it work seemlessly is a bit harder.
    • CommentAuthorapolloslx
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2007
     
    What a great idea. I'm with you guys. Let's make it LASnix built by the community for the community. Any way I can help I will. If we can make LASnix install with no more or minimal configuration required post install. That would be doing more than any other os out there. I'm definately going to run it. As far as desktop gui's go I absolutely love KDE and I think it would be wise if on the install one could choose which desktop environment to install.
    Cheers
    Sydney, Australia
    • CommentAuthorEl_Diablo
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2007
     
    I try to use Linux as much as possible at my work, but the techs that work for me are not too Unix/Linux savvy. I want to integrate these Linux desktops into our Active Directory environment easily without too much hassle of editing files. This would make things easier for my Linux-challenged co-workers. What does everyone think of having LASnix have a native GUI management for joining an AD domain? I am a developer and I could help make this happen. Also, what about having WINE pre-installed and pre-configured?
    • CommentAuthorchris
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2007
     
    Posted By: El_DiabloWhat does everyone think of having LASnix have a native GUI management for joining an AD domain? I am a developer and I could help make this happen. Also, what about having WINE pre-installed and pre-configured?


    I like both of those ideas. LASnix is going to take a practical approach to this kind of stuff. As much as we would love the facts to be different, the corporate world has a heck of a lot of Microsoft in it. Heck, the whole world in general. So we have got to play well with this kind of stuff.

    When I first starting using Linux at my day job, my boss only let me run Xandros Pro, thanks to it's built in AD support.
    -Chris
  46.  
    Posted By: chris
    Posted By: El_DiabloWhat does everyone think of having LASnix have a native GUI management for joining an AD domain? I am a developer and I could help make this happen. Also, what about having WINE pre-installed and pre-configured?


    I like both of those ideas. LASnix is going to take a practical approach to this kind of stuff. As much as we would love the facts to be different, the corporate world has a heck of a lot of Microsoft in it. Heck, the whole world in general. So we have got to play well with this kind of stuff.

    When I first starting using Linux at my day job, my boss only let me run Xandros Pro, thanks to it's built in AD support.
    -Chris


    At my school, the entire district runs on Novell NetWare, with a bit of Active Directory Services used for the new XP clients that came in this year. So I am quite grateful RoadWarrior (my F-7 laptop) can act as an XP ADS client or as a NetWare client. I tend to use NetWare client because a majority of the services are on that end...
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoseju
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2007
     
    Make it totally kick ass and distribute it with what ever you like. For example, need Flash, ok, just have it ready to go. All those missing files to make your DVD and mp3 play? What the heck, just toss it in there. Have wine ready to go too. How to get around any legal issues? I suggest running all this off servers in like, Russia or something.

    Ok, but on the serious side. I like how Ubuntu is ready to go out of the box. Add all the kick ass 3D desktop stuff, custom theme that kicks ass (I talking Ubuntu Studio status), and make it automatically download LAS every Sunday afternoon.

    There should also be an option when you install (under the advanced tab) with would you like your system to be debian/ubuntu based or red hat/fedora based? Version 2.0 should have a third hybrid mix which just works.

    Back to the desktop, default desktop picture should be some hot babes (sex sells).
    • CommentAuthorRyan
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2007
     
    Quick question, is it illegal to distribute the codecs on the cd? (In the US, i'm the sexy UK so I'm okay but) and then when the user wants to play a file say "this is illegal; press install if you don't mind" and then install them from the cd? rather than it have it pull them from online?
  49.  
    Posted By: RyanQuick question, is it illegal to distribute the codecs on the cd? (In the US, i'm the sexy UK so I'm okay but) and then when the user wants to play a file say "this is illegal; press install if you don't mind" and then install them from the cd? rather than it have it pull them from online?


    Contributory, you are still liable....
    • CommentAuthorRyan
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2007 edited
     
    Maybe a Rest of the world iso and a US iso...and then if people accidently click the Rest of the world iso all the time :P

    Ahwell, was worth trying.

    [edit] hmm quick question: do you think fluendo would say do us a cheap bulk deal to include the codecs they provide if we could get enough in donations? I know that loads of people would download the distro and then fluendo would be out of pocket but just a question

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